Lakeview Christian Life Church

We can all try to figure out why there is shunning. Quite honestly, I DONT CARE...I just want my family ALL around the same table!\r \r Former post: As a former member of LCLC who has family still attending, there are only a few things I want in life...\r \r 1. I want to have my WHOLE family to be able to join around the same table and have a meal together! \r \r 2. I want to be able to join in a celebration of my parents lives when they pass.\r \r That's all! Will you join me as I continue to pray? more

Dear Christian L.,\r Very astute observation and reasoning in your explanation about shunning.\r Previous Post: Those who have left Lakeview are considered reprobate by the dwindling number who remain because their authority figures tell them it is so. Consequently, many of our reviews are being “re-interpreted” to reinforce the leadership’s indoctrination. But by their own inconsistencies, Lakeview’s leadership is losing the battle as we on the outside continue to expose the serious doctrinal error within. So let’s be careful to extend as much grace as possible to the members of this congregation. This is a spiritual battle, and the tide is turning! We can continue to trust that the Holy Spirit will move on individual hearts to spring our loved ones from their prisons, and reunite us in a more lasting and mature faith. \r \r Let us be patient to allow God to work His purposes in us and in our beloved brothers and sisters. Let the Holy Spirit move through whatever convictions are in their hearts, praying that God will bring deliverance by providing undistorted revelation through His Word. Pray that members may begin to understand the Bible directly--apart from the distortions of the system. Mercifully, God has delivered many from Lakeview! The former members of Lakeview now outnumber their current members! more

The shunning is necessary to prevent any contrary view from being considered. It also serves man's pride by publicly demonstrating what we are willing to sacrifice for God, and thereby bind the shunners closer to the leadership. Shunning family Is the blood sacrifice of modern cults.\r \r \r Dear Looking for a church,\r Those who were long term members and left LCLC invested a huge amount of time, money, energy, and children in the hope LCLC was a dynamic NT church. It is a family business. I wish these reviews were exaggerated. They are not. Your decision to look elsewhere is a wise one.\r \r Dear Thank Y. Did I know you? We left LCLC in ""97. I know how good and decent so many of the folks are. Our family was very active for the 12 years we were there. Waking up to the abuse was a painful process, and it appears it have gotten worse. I am praying Jesus covers you with His love, as you seek His wisdom.\r \r Hi All! Identifying conditions where the blood of Jesus is not efficacious is essential to keep believers locked in legalism. By removing the believer beyond the reach of grace (blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, crucifying Christ anew, et al), while simultaneously asserting the Presence and leading of the Holy Spirit through leadership, LCLC insulates itself from criticism and keeps the members in a state of fear of ""losing their place in the Kingdom"". Strip away the religious veneer, and this is predictable demagoguery.\r \r Hi Guys! I have been trying to sort this shunning out. Norman and Becky are spiritual parents to so many who they have designated as ""not of us"" or ""reprobate"" or ""having crucified Christ again, and beyond repentance"", Setting aside the Mom and Dad thing, (the terms we were privileged to call them if we were inner circle), Norman preaches the importance of ""what"" we are born into when we are born again. Great emphasis is placed on the church being the family of God, the Pastor, the spiritual father.\r \r I am appalled at the parents shunning their children who have departed LCLC, but with Norman and Becky setting the pattern of the good parents, it is predictable. Their brutality to their spiritual children is imitated by those with natural children: unquestioning obedience, while in; ceasing to exist, if they leave.\r \r II we ""lose"" our children, we shun them as we have been taught by the example Norman and Becky set who shun their ""spiritual"" children.who left, or were canned. (Nepotism answers questions regarding the positions of their own sons)). The parents who sacrifice their children in this way make a metaphorical blood offering to their God. Covenants are confirmed.by the shedding of blood, and the parents are bound closer to LCLC. We have a pattern (apostolic revelation) for us to justify our callousness or assuage our pain, \r \r Love covers a multitude of sins, Leaving LCLC is one sin not covered. Rather, shunning our children is the price for remaining. Crime families, gangs, and cults have similar practices, Churches do not.\r \r It is astounding how incredibly cruel and clueless we can be. Jesus tossed the ball back to us many times by reminding us ""being sinful, yet how do you treat your kids?"" , knowing that our selfless love for our kids was the best metaphor for God's love. How do we get so twisted that we can blithely cut off our children, and justify this idiocy with an appeal to God? Our hearts are clearly susceptible to believing anything! Mercifully, Jesus gave us the antidote: love, the kind we have for our children. \r \r Shunning our children calls into question our understanding of God, the scriptures, our fruit as Christians; our very humanity. I tremble when I consider that God is just.\r \r more

Let’s make no mistake here, folks. The shunning practice is the central issue of this entire uproar. And telling your members to put on a cheerful act when they run into us in the supermarket? That is not enough, Leadership. It will never be enough. Not when there are grandparents who long to meet their grandchildren for the first time. Not when there are children who want to see their parents again for Christmas. Not when many families bleed freely for the security of a few. \r \r I’d like to quote some passages of the Christian Life book back to ThankY, in hopes of getting some sort of response that more than blanket Scripture quoting and empty platitudes. It’s a known fact by all who have attended this church that those who break their commitments are shunned by their family and loved ones who remain. While doing my homework on the topic, I consulted one of the only approved companions to the Word of God sanctioned by the leadership, the Christian Life Book. Here I found some rather contradictory entries:\r \r “Commitment to a local church is usually made verbally and publicly. Although there are no specific Scriptures to this effect in the New Testament, common sense dictates that this is the pattern to follow.” (James 276)\r \r So to clarify, the entire practice of shunning is based on….common sense? The Christian Life book clearly admits that there are no specific Scriptures to point to when instructing people on New Testament church commitment. But should members leave this church to go worship God somewhere else, then common sense tells us that Christ wants you to shun those believers. That’s what the Christian Life Book says. Rather clearly. \r \r Sorry, but when weighed against EVERYTHING ELSE that Christ said to his followers, this argument over church commitment simply doesn’t hold water. I can already hear this passage being explained by The Evangelist during a Sunday evening meeting. ""They obviously took the passage out of context. We are the only authority on this text, so please no questions."" Funny thing about context? It usually belongs to the one with the microphone. \r \r The second entry shed even more light on the topic. It’s found in the same chapter on Discipleship and Commitment. \r \r “We cannot really put down roots if we frequently pull ourselves up and transplant ourselves. There are those times when the Lord will allow us to make moves, but we must be careful to have our lives directed by His Word and His kingdom, and not by the circumstances of this life (such as the condition of the job market, the location where we would rather live, etc.)"" (James 279)\r \r Of course there were members who left because they decided to leave the area, or move toward an upward career position. But those people are in the minority. The vast majority of the voices represented here made their decision simply based on His Word, out of a desire to seek a more enriching church environment. You’ll find these people still live right here in Pittsburgh. They live right down the road. They’re busy fulfilling God’s will for their lives, busy going to work like you, finishing school like you, serving faithfully in ministry within their local churches like you. They have not disappeared. They are not ghosts. These are real believers with real hearts, and.....well.....I know what it does to my heart. \r \r I can only imagine how it must grieve the heart of Christ. \r \r It starts to feel like throwing pebbles at castle walls out here. We get tired of holding to hope. Is it even possible to free imprisoned minds? It feels like we lack some secret combination of words. Or perhaps the secret lies not through our words, but our actions. In any case, the answer must be out there somewhere. We may not have found it yet, but we will not stop searching. \r \r I hope one day to receive a genuine response. From anyone. \r \r \r \r Works cited: \r James, Norman. The Christian Life Series. Springdale, PA: Whitaker House, 1995. Print.\r \r more

You don't need NJ to speak for Jesus Christ, your Lord and Savior. The Holy Spirit is quite willing and able to do that Himself. more

Christian S. wrote the following: \r ""Many of the recent reviews that have been posted on this website were NOT written by current members of the church and do not provide an accurate or truthful description of this church. Their words are shocking and slanderous. They are not written to help people, but to harm them. They have brought up accusations that are intended to deceive, how can you listen to words that bring so much darkness and suspicion and hate? They have raised up a persecution against Lakeview Church. I would not dare to speak that way against any church - the Lord is Judge.""\r \r - You are allowed to write reviews for places that you are not currently a member of, but at one time were a member. For example, I have belonged to many different gyms and I can write reviews for them, even though I do not currently belong to them. You can write reviews for places that do not require membership, like restaurants, etc.\r \r -These reviews are honest. Do you really believe that 100 plus people are lying? That's a bit of a stretch isn't it? They are written to help current members escape and to let the general public what they are getting into.\r \r - No one is persecuting Lakeview. These reviews contain people's personal experiences. Lakeview is harming Lakeview because of their destructive behavior. We are just shining a light on it.\r \r - Odd that you say you would never speak that way against any church as I remember many sermons bashing almost every faith and church other than Lakeview. There is nothing wrong with speaking out against a church or its leadership by the way, which is not what we are doing. We are relating our experiences with the church and its leadership. This sentence (""I would not dare speak that way against any church."") is a prime example of the hypocrisy and brainwash that takes place at Lakeview.\r more

I love my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I left Lakeview not knowing for sure that I was doing the right thing—it’s so impossible to see clearly from within that toxic bubble! But once I was out, I immediately began to see Lakeview for what it is—an organization created and controlled solely to serve the insatiable appetite of the apostle.\r Norman, the single thing that hurt me most, considerably more than the loss of my loving family and long-time friends, was the realization that even the activity that I cherished above anything else in the service—our worship of Jesus in our time of singing and praise—was paradoxically used against the faithful saints as a mind-numbing influence to soften us up, so to speak, so that we would receive the subtle twisting and distortion of holy scripture that you use to manipulate your subjects to follow your edicts and decrees above the commands of our Lord!\r I love the God of the Bible—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Is that really such an evil thing, Norman, that I should be treated as an outcast?\r Fortunately, by His grace, I am out of Lakeview; and I am no longer impeded by you from doing the good works that he has created me to do. more

Its all about the heart. God looks at the heart of man. Lakeview attendees, look into your hearts. The anxiety, the underlying fear, the pressure to tow the line. That is fruit of being led by a heart that is contrary to who God is. When there are godly leaders the people rejoice. 500-300=200. That doesn't look like there are lots of people rejoicing. Maybe it's because the leadership isn't leading in a godly way. Hard to argue with the numbers. Look at your own hearts and measure them against God's word, not Norman's. Once you step outside, you will see that freedom was waiting there all along, and so are we. more

The shunning of people was a strategy used by Muhammad, the “Apostle” of Islam.\r \r Once, Ka‘b b. Malik – a leading poet of Islam – was war weary and did not go on the raid against the Byzantines. \r \r Muhammad shuns him and others who also did not go. Most make excuses, lying to Muhammad, and with a wink and a nod, are restored to the Muslim community.\r \r Malik tells the truth, and is reproached by those who made excuses. He expects the Apostle to forgive him because of his honesty.\r \r Instead, Muhammad orders him to be shunned for fifty days within the tight Muslim community, including his family and close friends. The Apostle orders him at one juncture to separate from his wife, which he does, even willing to divorce her if need be. He expresses his distress in poetry as “ … the world, spacious as it is, closed in on” him.\r \r Then, the Apostle “hears” from Allah and Malik is restored, and is ever thereafter a loyal Muslim …\r \r ___________________\r \r (previous post)\r \r Lord Jesus, we pray, crush the evil and set the prisoners free. Amen.\r ___________________\r \r (previous post)\r \r As the language of Genesis 2:16-17 is unpacked, we see the original contest between:\r \r 1. Freedom and slavery.\r 2. Feast and famine.\r 3. Good and evil.\r 4. Life and death.\r \r Which do we choose?\r \r In the English, we see two possibilities: ""You are free to eat ..."" from the good fruit; versus eating of the forbidden fruit where ""you will surely die.""\r \r The Hebrew text is far more dynamic in its economy, literary genre and specific grammar of parallel opposites:\r \r 1. akol tokel (pronounced with a long ""o"" twice, and a long ""a"" for the ""e"") versus:\r 2. moth tamuth (pronounced with a long ""o,"" short ""a"" and a long ""u"").\r \r The written Word of God is here translated from the parallel use of the infinitive absolute imperfect:\r \r 1. ""In feasting you shall continually feast"" versus:\r 2. ""In dying you shall continually die.""\r \r This transcends the Greek and Latin based sense of the English active participle:\r \r 1. A feasting always fully present that never ends, versus:\r 2. A dying always fully present that never ends.\r \r Or summed up simply: ""Feast or die.""\r \r When we left Normantown in 1978, drank of the fresh air, and having learned the lesson of living in a walled compound of the soul, I set to write a book called ""No Coercion in the Gospel."" As it turns out, I examine this question of freedom versus slavery in chapters of two books I did write: ""The Six Pillars of Biblical Power"" and ""Genesis and the Power of True Assumptions"" (TEI Publishing House).\r \r For those still in the walled compound of the soul, do you yearn to breathe free?\r \r ___________________\r \r (a prior post)\r \r For what it is worth. In 1977, just months prior to our awakening and departure from Normantown, the church bought the old Cabana property.\r \r I stopped by en route home from work one day, to pray about the church's plans, and with good expectations. It is still remarkable to me how these prayers left my soul utterly empty. I asked the Lord to give me guidance on how to pray, and yet a dome of silence over the property was evident.\r \r I took a number of pictures, in the idea of having some ""before"" shots. When they were developed, I was shocked at one. There, in the one of the piles of rubble, the figure of a goat demon stood out with clarity. Who knows the spiritual territory, before and after ...?\r ___________________\r \r (excerpt of original post, January 27, 2014)\r \r My wife and I were in a group of fourteen people that publicly left “Normantown” thirty-six years ago. Breathing the fresh air, leaving a toxic fog ...\r \r For those who struggle in having left, with all the broken families, and for those who still suffer within, I pray for the grace of God to intervene, in the name of Jesus and through the power of the Holy Spirit, to grant “freedom for the prisoners … to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor” (Luke 4:18-19; cf. Isaiah 61:1-2). more

I would not recommend this church to anyone, and I have the basis to make this statement as a long-standing member of the church. The presence of God is not really here because the preaching is so terribly unsound that the people aren’t allowed to demonstrate the love of Christ in any way. Anyone seeking a good home church will not find what they are looking for here at Lakeview Church. \r For those who have been fortunate enough to have read the curiously negative reviews that some former members have posted on this website, I do apologize for the confusion that I have created. How necessary it is for them to warn others in their enlightenment to cast doubt in our member’s minds. Jesus warned the people about the religious leaders of His day in a similar way: \r 16 “But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children, 17 and say, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’ 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.” - Matthew 11:16-19\r So we do not engage in some war of words or banter about with persuasive arguments. Our message and our preaching are not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power (I Corinthians 2:4). ""Wisdom is vindicated by her deeds."" \r Lakeview Church is not of God. It’s preaching had come to nothing a long time ago because of a false apostle’s intervention. Since the people of LCLC and the word that is preached there is not the demonstration of the Spirit - then these things truly are not from God, but from men. As a result, though men and women at Lakeview will not be able to overthrow the Kingdom, they will find themselves fighting against God. (See Acts 5:33-39.)\r ""For if I do wish to boast I will not be foolish, for I will be speaking the truth; but I refrain from this, so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me."" - II Corinthians 12:6\r Our doctrine is so warped that It is not easy to use words to defend ourselves, so we do not content ourselves with words. May you visit another church to see in them the things that are befitting of a people serving God. May you hear things elsewhere that will make you say, ""Surely God is among them."" \r If we understood the reality of the true Kingdom of God, we would rejoice in all who are led to the true knowledge of God our Savior. That path will not lead you to Lakeview Christian Life Church, so be glad to share in the new life you received in Jesus in a church that doesn’t warp the truth of the Holy Bible. more

Dear Thank You L., I wanted to comment on your the following statement you made, ""I would recommend this church to everyone, and I have the basis to make this statement as a long-standing member of the church."" I do not recommend this church and I have a right and a responsibility to provide feedback to others in search of a good Christian church. I spent my first 20 years of life at Lakeview and when I left I lost my entire social structure, because I was shunned. I dug up an email I received from one of your members a few years back. The subject was ""Sorry"". ""____,\r \r I have been taking so much crap lately for adding you as a friend (on Facebook). Personally, I think people should mind their own business. Plus, I think you should treat all people with dignity and respect. Shunning people is not the answer. If you want someone to live a certain way, live it in front of them and prove it works. I feel like I am being treated like I have left LCLC by my friends (so sue me if I still love my brothers.) Anyway, I hope you don't think I am taking the coward's way out (I guess I am), but I am going to drop you as a facebook friend. That doesn't mean I won't say hi if I see you. You can always drop me a line at _______.\r \r I just don't get life. I guess things would have been easier had I married at 21 and had three kids by now. lol.""\r \r Take care!\r \r more

The root of all the problems at Lakeview lies entirely with the pastoral staff whose hearts are deceitful and who do not understand Truth.\r Leaders, our reviews expose your hypocrisy and inconsistencies, your ruthless quest for power, and your cruel manipulations and mind control. \r You are angered about this because it is true, not because your reviewers are evil. more

There is an “apostle” at Lakeview\r Whose pleas for your money would make you\r Supply him his fund--\r Or else you’ll be shunned;\r For out of his “church” he would take you.\r \r The doctrine at Lakeview is hazy.\r The pastor’s exposits are lazy.\r His sermons are skewed--\r His message untrue.\r This man: a true brother? That’s crazy!\r \r You think this a frivolous verse?\r Your spouse he may have you divorce!\r If outside his will\r Your spirit he’ll kill\r You’ll be thrown in the street with his curse!\r \r With stories so commonly true--\r (They number a hundred or two-)!\r It isn’t your fault\r This place is a cult.\r Just get out. FORGIVE HIM—don’t sue. more

Double Binds\r \r A double bind is a kind of baited trap. It is like a lobster pot or a similar type of animal trap - the trap is initially attractive and easy to get into, but then turns out to be much harder to get out of. Unlike an animal trap, a double bind works on a psychological level rather than a physical one. A double bind tricks a person into doing what the controller wants, while giving an illusion of choice.\r \r A double bind offers some kind of benefit as its bait. With the FWBO, the bait is the promise of personal and spiritual growth. \r On offer are: greater understanding and kindness; mental calmness, clarity and focus; and greater self-confidence and positivity. How could anyone refuse?\r \r Of course, a person could refuse, but then that might be taken to imply arrogance on their part. Refusal could be taken to imply that they believe they are already perfect, that they have already achieved their full potential for understanding and kindness, etc. That's already a little bit of a double bind.\r \r However, the double bind only starts to kick in once a person takes the bait, once they start to feel that there are aspects of their lives they would like to improve, and that they might benefit from following a course of study and training, with the FWBO or any other organisation offering to teach people how to realise their full potential.\r \r They don't need to have absolute faith in the group's teaching, only to give it some degree of credence, or at least the benefit of the doubt.\r \r In general, groups offering to teach people how to develop their full potential, will put forward the idea that the reason why they are failing to realise their true potential, is because they are subject to certain psychological or cognitive or emotional blocks and obstacles, which they may be unaware or unconscious of. These obstacles block their energy and cause frustration and unhappiness.The group's teaching can help them to become aware of and then overcome these \r In a Christian based group such as the Moonies, any doubts or reservations which a student may have about the group's teaching, may be blamed on Satan putting evil thoughts into the student's mind in order to try and prevent them from reaching towards God. In Scientology, such doubts or reservations may be ascribed to the influence of 'engrams', unconscious conditionings from past lives which block the student's energy and awareness.\r \r In a way it doesn't much matter which factors the group identifies as the reasons why a person might have failed to realise their full potential. The two key ideas are that a person has unrealised potential, and that the group's teaching can enable them to overcome any unconscious hindrances and realise that potential. These two ideas together form a potential double bind.\r \r The double bind works in the following way: If you believe you might be failing to live up to your true potential, because of unconscious conditioning or similar factors, then what do you do about it? Do you:\r \r (a). Give in and accept the situation?\r \r or\r \r (b). Try and break free of your conditioning?\r \r more

I pray regularly for the repentance of the leadership at Lakeview so the false doctrines that are being preached can be corrected. These leaders have destroyed many lives, and surely they will give an account to God. I fear greatly for them.\r I left Lakeview long ago and have matured in Christ under sound teaching and continuing repentance. \r If you, as a member, are questioning your faith because of doubts and inconsistencies in the leadership, you must leave Lakeview—but DON’T LEAVE GOD.\r Be careful to find a good church, where you can begin to heal. Be aware that any church that practices directive prophecy has the potential to become manipulative. This, and some of the things I mention below may run counter to how you’ve been programmed at Lakeview, but truth is helpful, if you’re able to receive it.\r Seek out a church which understands that extra-biblical revelation from prophets and apostles is no longer necessary—or even scriptural. For example, study 1 Corinthians 13: 8-10: “but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away… For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but WHEN THE PERFECT COMES, the partial will be done away.” I know that Lakeview says that the word “perfect” in this verse is referring to Jesus’ return (not the completion of the canon), but that interpretation really doesn’t fit the original language. (Why would the word “perfect” be neuter if it’s referring to Jesus?). A correct understanding—that perfect (or complete) refers to the completed scripture—fits the context of church history since the verse was obviously written before the final books of scripture were finished. It makes sense logically, too, because it confirms that the scripture alone, in its entirety, is given by inspiration of God, to be the rule of faith and life.\r Unfortunately, today, the encouragement of “prophetic utterance” enables the unscrupulous to practice dangerous mind control since the hearer is led to believe that the word is from God, and not simply from the imagination of the speaker. In this post apostolic age, no one can know the mind of God apart from what He Himself has revealed in Holy Scripture. Anyone who pretends that God discloses things that can’t be directly deduced from the Bible has fallen into serious error. \r You will find the will of God in your life if you find a healthy church, exercise your brain, and faithfully use the gifts that God has given you—practices that, strangely enough, are discouraged at Lakeview.\r Finally, pursuing a correct understanding of the Bible is critical. Like the faithful Bereans, we are each responsible to examine the Word of God to ensure that our own understanding is correct. “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.” 2 Timothy 3: 16-17.\r more

ThankY…Let’s take it point by point. -- PART I - A Reprise\r “I would recommend this church to everyone, and I have the basis to make this statement as a long-standing member of the church. The presence of God is here, the preaching is sound, the people demonstrate the love of Christ in such a beautiful way.”\r ThankY….first let me say that there are many that were long-standing members that no longer call this group home. Secondly, I beg to differ that the presence of God is ‘there’ as it is any more than anywhere else. To say that as you have, is more than an observation but an oblique arrogance. Regarding the preaching, I beg to differ. While anyone can say anything regarding the scriptures, the key to understanding exactly what is ‘sound’ preaching is if it reflects and magnifies what is known to be truth. It is not private revelation of an elite group. The bible backs this statement up with the fact that in scripture, there is no private interpretation (2 Pet 1:20)). Yet the ideals of the Kingdom of God, Conversion, Born Again, Circumcision of Heart, Justification, Eternal Judgment and Resurrection of the Dead all take on parts and conclusions that border on the fantastic. If you care to look, and do hard work on proper exegesis you would know that. But…as those who lead you, you are left with your own suppositions and there is the beginning of error. Finally, I am not sure about the ‘demonstration of the love of Christ’ either. Having been a member and leader for many years, I believe I can say without reservation that the little word ‘IF’ plays a key role in all positions held by one within the group. Friend, God’s love has no condition and to ‘demonstrate the love of Christ’ requires the same. As evidenced by a majority of entries below, I would say there is utter failure on this premise. The love of Christ must be demonstrated with no respecter of persons. \r “For those who have been unfortunate enough to have read any of the curiously negative reviews that some non-members have posted on this website, I do apologize for the confusion it has created. How easy it is to sling mud from the shadows and cast doubt in other people's minds.”\r ThankY. Please for sake of having some degree of integrity, refrain from the premise that the reviews for the majority are ‘curiously’ negative. If it is as you say that you are a long standing member, then it is also true that you probably know most of the people who no longer call this group theirs. You also know that most of these reviews come from them. Additionally, know that for the most part, these ex-pats gave full support to what was there when they were there. If for no other reason, have a little respect for those who supported the financial well being of the group. Most gave more than they could afford to give. Please do not mislead the readers of these reviews that there is some degree of misunderstanding on your part. There is no confusion unless you are as naïve as you are aggrandizing. Finally, we that have responded on this site are not slinging mud as you say and we are not in the shadows either. I will meet anyone of your leaders at anytime and discuss and debate any subject on an open and free forum – how about this one??) . I will even debate inside your walls. But this is the one thing that the leaders fear the most. I am sure if I would show up there I would be escorted off the premises under the guise I was there to harm someone…please…they are important only in their small sphere and minds.\r ThankY – the scripture you quote for reproof Matt 11:16-19 –should have been scrutinized more closely. In context, Jesus is talking to the religious elite who are not pleased with anyone that they do not approve of….sound familiar??? Again, you show a lack of understanding. So the next time you get a ‘word’ from God on this, consider to check out a few texts to ensure you are dividing the word wisely – something that should be better practiced by all within. more

I would recommend this church to everyone, and I have the basis to make this statement as a long-standing member of the church. The presence of God is here, the preaching is sound, the people demonstrate the love of Christ in such a beautiful way. Anyone seeking a good home church will find what they are looking for here at Lakeview Church. \r \r For those who have been unfortunate enough to have read any of the curiously negative reviews that some non-members have posted on this website, I do apologize for the confusion it has created. How easy it is to sling mud from the shadows and cast doubt in other people's minds. The people of Jesus day did the same thing: \r \r 16 “But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children, 17 and say, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’ 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.” - Matthew 11:16-19\r \r So we do not engage in some war of words or banter about with persuasive arguments. Our message and our preaching are not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power (I Corinthians 2:4). ""Wisdom is vindicated by her deeds."" \r \r If Lakeview Church were not of God, it would have come to nothing a long time ago with or without human intervention. However, if the people of LCLC and the word that is preached there and the demonstration of the Spirit - if these these things are from God and not from men, then men and women will not be able to overthrow it but will find themselves fighting against God. (See Acts 5:33-39.)\r \r ""For if I do wish to boast I will not be foolish, for I will be speaking the truth; but I refrain from this, so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me."" - II Corinthians 12:6\r \r It is easy to use words to defend ourselves, but we do not content ourselves with words. May you come to LCLC and see in us the things that are befitting of a people serving God. May you hear things that make you say, ""Surely God is among them."" \r \r We rejoice in all who are led to the true knowledge of God our Savior, and if that path leads you to Lakeview Christian Life Church we will be glad to share in the new life you have received from Jesus. more

Official LCLC Spokesman ""Thank Y.:"" 'May you hear things that make you say, ""Surely God is among them."" \r \r Jesus Christ: ""For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.""\r \r Whoops. All that shunning for something that's unconditionally promised. Literally *any* church where people gather in Jesus' name can boast of His presence, guaranteed.\r \r Call your mom.\r \r more

I am a long-standing and current member of Lakeview Christian Life Church, and I have found that this church has been everything I need as a Christian. The Word of God is preached here with clarity and truth and power. The praise and worship is awe-inspiring and beautiful. The people are kind and loving. The pastors and elders of the church have shown us the way to life and have been caring and gracious. It is so rare that you can find so much of what you need in one local church - I thank God for it everyday. \r \r Many of the recent reviews that have been posted on this website were NOT written by current members of the church and do not provide an accurate or truthful description of this church. Their words are shocking and slanderous. They are not written to help people, but to harm them. They have brought up accusations that are intended to deceive, how can you listen to words that bring so much darkness and suspicion and hate? They have raised up a persecution against Lakeview Church. I would not dare to speak that way against any church - the Lord is Judge. \r \r I count it an honor that the Lord has allowed me to be persecuted for the sake of knowing my Lord Jesus and serving Him. ""Blessed are you when men cast insults at you, and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, on account of Me. Rejoice, and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you."" Matthew 5:11-12\r \r Jesus said, ""You will know them by their fruits."" (Matthew 7:16-20) Come to Lakeview Church and you will see the most beautiful fruit in peoples' lives. Both young and old alike are seeking God in a way that gives you the faith that anyone can know the Lord and become like Him. However, these nameless people who would use the internet to attack a church are not looking to help people find their way - they are blind guides to the blind. But we at Lakeview Church are seeking God and preaching the gospel to all creation that all may be saved! more

What do you do when your shop sells something no one wants to buy? \r \r What do you have left when you've paid everything, cut off everyone, and your merchandise sits there rotting away on dusty shelves?\r \r That's the predicament Lakeview Christian Life Church is in. Year after year, they tout their wares, and their customer base shrinks daily. What will it take for them to look at their product? \r \r It's right there, in plain sight:\r \r ""May you hear things that make you say, 'Surely God is among them.'""\r \r Right there is your justification for decades of pain. Daughters walking down the aisle with no father to give them away, sons lying in hospital beds on the brink of death with not even a phone call. Grandparents who have never met their grandchildren. Churches closed, families carted away back to Pittsburgh. And with never a blink, never a twinge from those who do this cutting off, and why? Because you see, ""God is among them."" And anyone that questions that, doesn't agree, realizes there is more going on than just that, is cut off, forever.\r \r And they wonder why there isn't a line out the door.\r \r [Incidentally, it's good to have a pastor with an education from a seminary. I've gone back and forth on this, but when you see the hideous error, the indescribable pain that can result from such a ham-handed and irresponsible interpretation of scripture--you gotta have at least one guy that knows the Bible. You can't flip open a concordance and turn to every scripture that says ""just as"" and build from there. It's grossly irresponsible and glancing through these reviews will show you why.]\r \r Let's wrap up: what ARE people looking for in a church? Try two scriptures and you get there. "" By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."" Nothing in there about the presence of God, some mastery of the spiritual gifts. Straight up love. And the deeds that follow from love. See, the ""presence of God"" never inspired anyone to do anything, it's all--literally *all* about love, if you want real motivation. If you want changed lives. If you want to show that Jesus is preached, and shown, and loved.\r \r And finally, this small matter of the spiritual manifestations and how on their own they are more than worthless, from Matthew: “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you..."" \r \r So how DO you show it, if it's not spiritual gifts? Again, the words from Jesus Himself: \r ""for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ “Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ “Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”\r \r Maybe try selling love. Maybe try selling ""righteous."" Maybe try selling Jesus.\r more